Foreigners to get 100,000 kroner incentive to leave Denmark

Immigrants who can’t or won’t integrate into Danish society will get a bonus if they return home

The Danish People’s Party (DF) has strengthened its immigration stance by securing an agreement to pay ‘anti-social’ foreigners 100,000 kroner to leave Denmark.

As part of the on-going budget negotiations, the government’s traditional ally DF said it secured the agreement late last night.

Refugees and those who come to Denmark under family reunification schemes currently get 28,256 in repatriation support if they leave, of which 11,000 is a bonus. The bonus is usually paid out a year after the recipient returns home and their right to Danish residency expires.

The new deal would see 100,000 kroner given as a bonus if a foreigner returns home and gives up their residency rights in Denmark.

Neither the government nor DF has yet elaborated on what constitutes an ‘anti-social’ foreigner, but have said that it would be aimed at those who ‘can’t or won’t integrate’.

According to DF party leader Pia Kjærsgaard, the move will save the state a significant sum in local costs which are administered by local and regional councils.

‘Society will save a lot on an immense number of charges and problems. We already know that there are problems with nursing homes and have been problems with hospitals and health charges,’ Kjærsgaard said.

As part of the agreement local councils will have access to a 20 million kroner pool of funds to help motivate foreigners to return to their home countries and will be fully refunded for repatriation costs compared to the current 75 percent refund they receive today.

But opposition parties are shocked by the news saying it sends a clear signal to foreigners that Denmark wants to see them leave the country.

At the weekend’s negotiations, DF also secured a further agreement to crack down on immigration.

Ten million kroner of the budget will be set aside to improve passport control at Danish borders with the purchase of scanners that can check Interpol databases for stolen travel documents.

Comments

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Stranger - Where do I sign up?

|2009-11-09 13:19:58

I'm ready to go anytime they want to send me home. I've gotten so fed up with the xenophobia and insanity every time I turn around that it would be nice to go back to where I felt safe and secure (and that's not here).

Sam1983 - Shame Shame

|2009-11-09 13:32:14

This is the reson why Danes are hated everywhere in the world, even though they donate so much for humanity.
People think Danes "Selfish Ass"

PC - to stranger

|2009-11-09 13:54:23

are you being held here agaisnt your will?

Otherwise your comment is completly ridiculous!

Ready to go anytime? Well just pack and leave on the next plane out of here!

JoeThePlumber - Typical Danish Solution...throw money at it.

|2009-11-09 13:56:01

I'm right with you Stranger. Sign me up! although, it's only a fraction of the 'skat' that I've payed to the system.
Where should I go? Isn't Denmark the Best place in the world? That's what all the locals keep telling me. And then I get...If you don't like it, you can leave... another typical Danish answer!

Prince - What on earth is going on?

|2009-11-09 14:25:12

I guess the article speaks for itself....: "people we dont want u here and we' ll even pay u to take a hike....."
what a world.......

Grisling

|2009-11-09 14:59:08

"But opposition parties are shocked by the news saying it sends a clear signal to foreigners that Denmark wants to see them leave the country."
It should send a clear message to those foreigners that 'can't or won't integrate'. I'm not terribly enamoured of DF, but I see nothing wrong with this country attempting to preserve its own system of values.

AdrianL - Weird world

|2009-11-09 15:29:08

What a weird world! What incredibly stupid laws in the EU...

If you fail to integrate or you don't want to they should be allowed to kick you out of THEIR country.

FFS nobody forced you to come and work here, why should you get paid to leave? The money come from the people that are working and are paying taxes.
The authorities should have the right to send back home any foreign citizen that doesn't respect the danish way of life (while living and working in Denmark, obviously).

On the other hand I would gladly pay that money to kick out some immigrants that don't adapt and that are making life harder for the honest ones. There are way too many here.

I know that you think is more complex than that but it isn't, if you don't like Denmark why you just don't leave? It not complicated, it is as simple as that. Their country, their rules.

-----
Sincerely yours,
Artist / Immigrant

rakusson - nice move

|2009-11-09 15:20:33

I think this is a nice and indeed an innovative movement by the government. There are many people who came Danmark but find hard to integrate (like many older peoples) and cannot return back to home due to economic difficulty. Now, at least, they have some good incentive to return back home and live happily.

I would like to see one more rule being inacted: Deportation for anyone possessing illegal gun/ammunition and life sentence for ethnic Dane, and banning a visit to EU citizen.

Captain Comment - Equal opportunities

|2009-11-09 15:45:48

Actually this does apply to all foreigners. Only Politiken made the 'mental leap' that it must only be those from non-Western countries.

Trouble is nobody can decide how to define a 'problem foreigner'. Might be worth putting it to the test ...

npandjmclay - Fascinating comments here, huh?

|2009-11-09 15:49:30

Stranger, where in the world would you fel safer and more secure? Among all the guns in the USA? And Joe, if you've paid so much Skat, you must be able to afford the Danish life-style. ;-)

wor - But...

|2009-11-09 15:50:27

"part" of the problem is that western countries mess up other parts of the world so that refugees are created...this has been going on for centuries

...we prop up tinpots, sell them arms, take their minerals/oil, and when the tinpots fall out of our favour, we invade them, and occupy those countries.

It would be easier to "sallow" this suggestion if we did not have a big part in creating the problem.

Before you reply to this post, note that I wrote "part of the problem" at the start of this post.

Since the chickens (i.e the problem) are coming home to roost, it would be fair for the refugees to say "I'll gladly go, but sort out the mess YOU created in my land, FIRST".

The opposite point of view is we say to the refugees "Stuff YOU, again".

Prince - Integration!

|2009-11-09 15:50:32

People get a crib, just because somebody is having a hard time integrating in a given society, u want to deport him....that's some of the most ridiculous argument I've ever heard.
In this current day and age, I frankly cannot believe that some of us still have this radical point of view.......
Instead of kickin people out of your country (whatever on earth that means) you might want to try and find out why there are so many immigrants not happy with their situation in DK. I have met many people from all over the world, no matter where they from, Africa, Europe, Asia, America....they have issues with DK. So why not look at yourself for once and try to figure what is actually the issue instead of takin the quick fix approach.....this is not going to help get rid of this problem.
It will only create more resentment.
Still many things to learn from the US obviously........

magic1964 - No way.....

|2009-11-09 16:11:02

Very few will accept........Denmark is like paradise to them.
Free access to Welfare, soft justice, soft police....

AdrianL - @ Prince

|2009-11-09 16:11:59

Why?
If they don't want to integrate, if they don't like the rules, the weather... whatever they should leave. Why should Denmark change just to accommodate some immigrants that nobody forced to come here?

I'm an immigrant myself and I did my best to find out how things work here before I decided that this country is a good place for me and if there will come a time when i won't like it i will just leave but under no circumstances I can force the Danes to change just to accommodate me. It just isn't right.

-----
Sincerely yours,
Artist / Immigrant

wor - Xenophobic Immigrants

|2009-11-09 16:18:28

Some of the attitudes presented here such as "If you don't like it - LEAVE", makes me realize that some of us immigrants/migrants are really quite xenophobic towards other immigrants/migrants.

This xenophobic attitude from some immigrants reminds me of a comedy sketch from American comedian, Dave Chappelle.

Dave does this sketch where he is a "WHITE supremacist", called Clayton Bigsby who is also blind ...the funnny thing is, Clayton is also BLACK!

Xenophobic Immigrants...very funny :-)

Race - Love4all

|2009-11-09 16:31:22

Consider the following. We humans are social beings. We come into the world as the result of others' actions. We survive here in dependence on others. Whether we like it or not, there is hardly a moment of our lives when we do not benefit from others' activities. For this reason it is hardly surprising that most of our happiness arises in the context of our relationships with others

Prince - to wor

|2009-11-09 16:48:29

I have actually seen that show, u could not be more right........ :)

Loved ur choice of words:
"Xenophobic Immigrants"

liberalmind - Think wisely

|2009-11-09 17:11:58

Immgirants enrich a nation. Maybe for DK is short term acheivenment. Take a close look at other nations. Every human wants to get the best of life before he dies. Reason why people migrate for better lifes. Intergration is not a matter of days or years. Same you can't adapt easily in another society. But some gives you a good chance too. Being it Danes, American, Canadian etc all you have to think is a way to give a good choice for humanity not division becos of wealth. Nothin last forever. Look deep see if someday your kids happen to find themselves in immigrants shoes.

magic1964 - @wor...let´s talk MONEY

|2009-11-09 17:12:06

You miss al point...we talk about MONEY !!!!!!!!!!! why immigrants who work hard, who make effforts to intergrate should pay so many taxes to support welfare immigrants who think medieval traditions and religion are more important than integration and work ?

Why immigrants who work hard should stand gangs ruining their cars, their streets, their schools, kindergarden etc etc

Why???????????

clive1971

|2009-11-09 17:24:53

Sad really that it has come to this. It is much harder to integrate here than in most EU countries.

wor - @Magic

|2009-11-09 17:42:47

Thanks for your comment.

...BUT, it's not about money, that's just what they tell you...and you BUY into it (pun intended)

That money could be spent on helping people integrate so that they can contribute by paying taxes, once they are integrated.

DFP have "put their (our) money where their mouth is"...actions speak louder than words....and if money talks, listen very, carefully to what they are saying with it.

So the upshot is, that they (DF) want YOU out...but relax for now, Magic, they are going for the muslims and refugess, first . AND then they go for the rest of us....did I write relax?

@Prince...thanks

foreigner - Make it a Million and I'm in!

|2009-11-09 18:14:58

I ain't touching 100,000! Make it a million and I'll jump on the next plane.

One more thing... I jump on the plane ONLY after the money is in my account. I ain't waiting for a whole goddamn year... what if DF is out of government before then???

Those are my two non-negotiable conditions.

Now, I am off to pack my bags whilst I wait for your 'THERE IS A MILLION IN YOUR ACCOUNT' message pop up.

Sincerely,
'Won't Integrate Foreigner'

manky - The golden middle finger

|2009-11-09 18:35:04

What a brilliant idea. Because you can never have too much incentive to leave this hole. This will backfire in such spectacular fashion, I'm tempted to pass on the money just to stay for the ringside seat. First, watch all the liberal, educated foreigners leave in outright disgust. Most likely without the money. Then watch Osama Bin Laden ask all his sympathizers to cash in and donate the money as soon as they land. Finally, watch Danes throw their hands up in horror as they collectively bemoan : oh no, how did our carefully thought-out and well-laid plans bite us TWICE in the tuchas?

PC - @ wor

|2009-11-09 18:57:39

we are immigrants stating the obvious to other immigrants that come here and complain about their host country.

The OBVIOUS being, if you are not happy here why dont you leave?

now how does this constitute xenophobia exactly?

And by the way i love your "poor little me" stance of blaming others for your problems. So the western world went wherever and ruined your countries and now you (generic you) come here and ruin our countries. Guess noone is free of blame ...

expatdude - ha ha

|2009-11-09 20:03:57

So magic, your vile little country wants to subject Western non-EU citizens to the laws for non-Westerners while only paying the latter to leave. It'll be yet another pathetic failure that contributes to further trash DK's reputation abroad. I run a headhunting company, and picking off miserable expats who'll be happy to live in a less heavily taxed, less racist, less xenophobic society is part of the plan. Shame I can't get the govt to pay them 100k and get a job in a better place.

FDUK - Motivation techniques?

|2009-11-09 20:40:37

"Local councils will be able to spend 20 million kroner to 'motivate' foreigners to return to their home countries... " What does this mean? Instead of continuing to work to help immigrants to learn the language and integrate better, local councils will be asking sprog centres to identify the 'anti-social' people so they can throw them out ..? Or maybe advertisements highlighting the merits of living in any other country but theirs...they can start by showing how far 100,000 dkk will go in every other country but this one...
It is strange DF have this much influence...and a shame that it is tarnishing the reputation of Danes and of Denmark- which is still currently (although decreasingly), seen as an 'open' and welcoming society.

roselavy - you are missing the point

|2009-11-09 21:18:12

The reason that a lot of people come to DK or any other european country is to have a good paying job, save enough and go back to their own country.
No one I know after 7 years of research in 1st world countries who comes for work and doesn´t integrate actually wants to stay in the foreign country. More than 80% of the people who leave latin america to go to Spain will go back after 10 years of hard work. After they have left their kids and come back when they are grown ups. They live in pretty precarious conditions and send all their money back home to buy land, build houses, pay for private schools. These people do not integrate because that is not their main interest.
It has nothing to do with danes being a holes it is about them not caring about integrating. They want the money, they crave for going back home. The people who will accept this money are not refugees because refugees can´t go back home, they will be persecuted. The people who take this money are mothers and fathers who came here for a better future and will save themselves 6 or 7 years of hard work.
I wish the Danish goverment used that money to help developing countries better tools to achieve a welfare society like DK is not just give them a big charity and send them away...the problem will come back, the next generation...

magic1964 - @liberalmind

|2009-11-09 21:22:51

You are right immigrants enrich society......just like a good sauce enrich a piece of meet.......
Small detail, you need to have the right sauce and right now Denmark look more like an ice cream submerge with burning hot bearnaise sauce..

wor - PC, not so PC

|2009-11-10 09:50:46

Hi PC, thanks for your comment.

"Statin' the obvious":
PC, your powers of "suggestion" and FUD don't work on me.
Point out the "facts", when you do this and can "back them up", then what you say will be the "obvious" truth.
To put these facts in perspective, you should also provide similar figures for ethnic Danes.
So far, YOU have not done this. Please oblige, by doing so.

"Xenophobia":
In some other post on CPHPOST.DK, I point out the following:-
"12% voted for the DFP,
26% voted Venstre,
10% voted Konservative.
We can safely say that the 12% of voters are xenophobic.
Keeping in mind that the Venstre/Konservative government rely on the DFP for support, we can say that the 36% of Venstre/Konservative voters are a) xenophobic, b) don't care about xenophobic attitudes, or c) are completely naive about xenophobia in Denmark.
Conclusion:12% to 48% of Danes (who vote) are Xenophobic...WOW! (Conversely, we have 52% that are not xenophobic, OR we are not sure about)"

"now how does this constitute xenophobia exactly?"
Well, when immigrants start saying the same things that an openly xenophobic political party says, then they must be equally xenophobic.
It's like when a black guy uses the N word, it must also be as equally racist as when a white guy uses the N word. (oh, yes it is)

"poor little me":
Ouch! That comment of yours shows that you have not read any of my posts closely enough. Please point out to me any of my posts where I moan about "my problems".
PC, you know nothing about me, and this "faux pas" of yours indicates that YOU are "probably" quite pressumptious, or is that being pressumptious of me to say so?
Talking about problems and my previous posts, I remember pointing out in some post I wrote that "I just ignore all of the BS and focus on where I want to be and focus on getting there". Simple life phillosphy. I'm solution oriented :-)
"People can be like crabs in a bucket. As soon as one crab gets the smart Idea to climb out, another crab pulls it back in." Think about that.
By accident of birth, I come to Denmark from another EU country (UK), and through my passion for things technical, I have a very decent education in an engineering field from my home land. My education has allowed me to work as a design engineer with a very decent tax bill since I arrived in Denmark.
Also, I live in a very idealic town (in an old and sometimes cold rented flat), where I can walk down the streets and people will say "hi" to me, as most people know me or of me. (You have to be prepared to say high to people, too, you know)
If we describe average as being the best of the worst, and worst of the best, I would describe my situation as being "above average"...I'm cool with that, and count my blessings.

"Taking issue with":
So, PC, I would describe my posts (which you interpret as moaning about my problems) as "taking issue" with certain issues in Denmark.
The only "issue" I have with Denmark is the level of xenophobia. Like I said, I avoid all of that BS, and know how to behave when faced with such attitudes.
For instance: Two weekends ago, I was shopping in the town where I live, and saw an old guy wearing a T-shirt saying "I love Pia K". I wanted to ask him why he loved Pia K, but thought better not to. Instead I looked him deep in the eyes and smiled with my teeth showing :-)

"Can you do better?"
The point is that if we don't discuss the hard stuff that's wrong, how can they become better?
The "if you don't like it - leave" attitude is one "possible" answer, but is that the only answer you guys and gals can come up with?
Is your thinking capacity and willingness to find a good solution so limited that all you can do is say "if you don't like it - leave"?
What about other solutions? Have you tried to scan for other possiblities? Or is the "if you don't like it - leave" the best you can do?
Maybe poeple being offered money to leave is "part" of the solution, but there must be other solutions that can work in concert with this.

"Belief in Danes"
I "believe" there are actually more Danes than foreigners in Denmark who moan about how xenophobic Denmark as become.
I remember on my first visit to Denmark, an old Danish guy heard me speak English and after he had a quick talk with the Dane I was with (about WW2), he said to me "welcome to Denmark". Nice
From personal experience I believe Danes are nice people, but I've been known to wrong about things in my life, and incentives like the one in this news article may indicate I'm wrong.

"Final Question"
The Question is: What do you say to a Dane who moans about how xenophobic Denmark has become? Do you tell them "like it, lump it, or leave"? if not why not, and what else do you say?

I would like all you people who believe in the "if you don't like it - leave" attitude to answer the above question.

If your answer involves double standards then there must be something wrong with the attitude of "if you don't like it - leave".

Feedback welcomed

If the only tool that you have is a hammer, you tend to treat everything as if it was a nail.

hr olsen - df out of denmark

|2009-11-09 22:57:15

What about giving the danish folk party
100.000kr to get out of my contry

hr olsen - df out of denmark

|2009-11-09 23:05:43

what about give danish folk party 100,000 kr to leave
denmark
and no we are not all Selfish Ass but all nazi is
and df are nazi

smurfieta1 - IQ test

|2009-11-10 07:30:10

http://www.test-iq.dk/#305321

magic1964 - This forum is full of racist.

|2009-11-10 08:05:59

There are two types of racist, the racists and the anti anti racists.

The racists dislike some people just because they belong to another ethnical or cultural group.....

The anti racist like some people just because they belong to another ethnical or cultural group.....

And then you have people like who me who like or dislike people not just because they belong or not to a ethnical or cultural group....... I like or dislike people just because they are honest or not, lazy or not, charming or not, intelligent or not etc etc.........and I have friends who belong to all type of ethnical or cultural group.......

SO YES THIS FORUM IS FULL OF RACIST WHO IGNORE IT.

wor - @hr olsen

|2009-11-10 09:26:36

Thanks for saying that.

Enjoy your day

HOX	\|2009-11-10 09:39:40

The source of this proposed ‘offer’ is of course, like a red rag to a bull in some ways! - PK, and DF! But, see it for what it is, a fairly empty proposal, one that has been used as a prop on the stage of the negotiations for the Finance Bill, this is PR, for DRF, and intentional, it’s about bargaining, tit for tat politics, or a kind of ransom if you wish…..come back in a year, and see if anyone has actually availed themselves of this monetary handout! - my guess is none! Populistic proposals are a speciality of the Danish Peoples Party, simplistic ingredients, easily swallowed by the voters, spin designed to capture attention to the party that appears to consider itself the saviour of Denmark - unfortunately, this creates a ’them v us’ situation, and not one of compromise. For the moment this is an offer for those who would like to accept, but at the same time it is a subversive message, which reads that there are people in DK that they would rather send packing, and to make it palatable, it comes wrapped up in a cloak of acceptable rhetoric. I have a hunch that those people are not going anywhere!

wor - @magic

|2009-11-10 10:17:54

Actually magic, I see the reasoning behind your statement, not that I agree completely with how you put it.

Maybe a "modern" and "accurate" definition of a racist would be:

"A racist: Someone who believes in the notion/idea of race"

The above definition makes sense, see the following links to see why:
http://www.apa.org/pi/oema/racism/contents.html
http: / / www.enotalone.com / article / 5043.html
http: / / www.enotalone.com / article / 5044.html

Does the above definition mean decent people are racists?
Well, we also have to remember that people have been told for centuries that "races" exist. The same way we were told that the world is flat.
It is reletively recently that scientists etc are in a position to explain and prove that races in homo sapiens do not exist.

So from the definition above, I can now see that I have been a "racist" as I believed in the race notion simply because I was told races existed...now I know, based on scientific evidence, that races in homo sapiens do not exist, I am racist no longer.

Race is just a pscychological consrtuct...

...so the question is "do you believe in the notion of races existing in homo sapiens?"

magic1964 - Masturbation....

|2009-11-10 10:30:43

If the immigrants who don´t integrate or adapt into Danish society were evangelist white people from Texas the actual anti racist people would scream " go home, leave Deanmark f..... Americans !!". And of course this wouldn´t be considered racism....

Do I believes in races ?? well if I hear Nelson Mandela talking about multiracial society I will say yes......but If I listen to another humanist who doesn´t use this word I will say no.......

Talking about races is an intellectual masturbation......it´s all about pleasure....: )))))

Giro - Wor, very nice put

|2009-11-10 11:18:25

Wor, I enjoyed and noded all the time while reading your comments made on 2009-11-10 09:50:46.

I was also getting really fed up with the people that are saying "If you don't like it, just go home".

Shame on you, damestjernelys and AdrianL !!!

You both should take a good look in the mirror and face reality.

What is this response telling us actually?
That only the ones that fully embrace and love how Denmark is should stay here?
The rest, if you are not happy then just leave. Don't criticise Denmark, don't speak out, don’t propose other solutions.

And YOU damestjernelys , I truly hope you will not be posting anything here on the CPH Post website, ever. Because if you post just one comment criticising something in Denmark, be sure I will be the first one to respond with ”If you don’t like it just go home”. Let's see how you like a taste of your own medicine.

deka - Who's next ?

|2009-11-10 11:28:23

As always in this endless and frustrating debate on integration
it seems that again many fail to make distinctions. The first distinction is that illegal immigrants are not the same as immigrants (unless you have the mentality of DF in which case they are all the same) . How do you evaluate who is not willing or able to integrate in a society which has more resistance to allowing true integration than to supporting it. It seems clear to me that this is just an extension of the hostile attitude towards people of foreign origins that has been prevalent for many years in Denmark ,.. and the next question is,,where does it stop? It’s no secret that some political parties would rather just have all of foreign origins get the hell out of DK , but unless DK wants to remove itself from EU and the global community,,, it’s not likely that this will happen.
If this new campaign is effective in getting a number of people to take the offer and return to their country of origin, I’m afraid to see what the next “campaign “will be… and if the past history is any indication of what is to come,,, it will be no surprise if a similar offer will be given to Danish born people of forign origins as well. After all,.. when it comes to the issue of the integration problem, the majority of the population who are having the problem are not the refugees or immigrants, it’s the generations of those who are born and raised here.
So if there is no distinction made in this debate, it seems logical who will be targeted next in the campaigns to come. Sure it makes sense to offer those who wish to return to their country an “incentive” to do so, it saves the country an enormous amount of money in the long term. But what about supporting a campaign that promotes “true” integration, if you examine the statistics and financial losses DK has because of the lack of integration,,you will find the investment in solving the problem costs far less than perpetuating it as it has been done for many years.
The signal this new campaign sends is extremely disturbing, the majority of the population with an ethnic background (and it doesn’t matter what part of the world you are from) already has been made to feel polarized and unaccepted, and experiences tremendous resistance to integration . I fear that the end cost of this kind of initiative will be more expensive in the long run, as it does not promote a healthy integration policy, but rather adds fuel to the fire of resistance.
Can we expect more radicalizing of foreign youth? Probably,,,, can we expect more animosity from both sides of the population,,, probably,… can we expect a larger split in the efforts to co exist in a productive manner …. Probably. Can we expect this to contribute in a positive manner towards achieving a well functioning integration in DK. …… I think the answer is obvious.

The only difference between the KKK and the unrelentless rasicm and prejudise shown here is, at least they wear masks.

And to all of those who consistantly repeat the same comments such as, "if you dont like it leave"
etc etc,,,, congradulations!!!! you have joined the ranks of the ignorant and uninformed,,, and you are a part of the problem, not the solution.
If you cant see that all these people who have been commenting and fighting all these years about the injustice, hardships in intergrating, and exclusion that is so openly practiced in Denmark is real,,its not imaginary. ,,and its not subjective.
What will it take for this part of the population to wake up and do something constructive about it?
Independant sources througout Europe place Denmark at the top of the list of the worst integrated countries in Europe... are they also wrong?
How many wake up calls does it take ?
denmark can be a wonderful place with great potential ,,no doubt about that,,, but NOT with this iniquality and rasist attitude which is so prevelant.
Come on.... wake up and face the facts,,and do something to correct it.
Ignoring the facts, does not change the facts.

wor - To Giro, and deka

|2009-11-10 14:30:24

Giro, thanks :-)

Deka, keep going :-)

EDITED:
Constantin...."decoded genome in order to sell him a TV"... I like that one :-)

Constantin - magic1964

|2009-11-10 12:20:41

I'd pay 100.000 kr just to shut you up the DF way (now that I know where I can get the money). You consecutively fail to grasp any idea further up than MONEY. YOUR money, YOUR taxes, YOUR preciousss. It's really no wonder the majority of your complaints -if not their total- is aimed against other expats/foreigners/immigrants -just another indication of your inability to understand dignity. And your whole "if you don't like it, leave it (you filthy Middle Eastern)" song? Guess what lad, this is the way Denmark works, with social welfare and all this shit you despise. If YOU don't like it, LEAVE it. No one would be surprised if you actually lacked the pride to middle-finger 100.000 kr.

manky has actually hit the spot. If someone is not making any money here, is unable to integrate blahblah blah, then he would probably leave anyway. If someone was able to integrate, seeing this shit would probably make him go someplace else, where people won't demand his decoded genome in order to sell him a TV.

No, really, this time they fucked it up good, to the point not even "national interest" works as a counter balance.

magic1964 - Deka

|2009-11-10 12:23:51

Immigrants who have work as priority and not religion or unacceptebel tradition are very welcome in Denmark and EU.....immigrants who are here to rely on welfare , who force their daughter to marry a man from their native country are not welcome.....

magic1964 - constantine

|2009-11-10 13:29:54

I dislike or like people regardless of their ethnical backgrounds.....
Some Danish are as nocive, Harmful, damaging, troublesome for the society as some immigrants.

Danish imbeciles Autonomes, ultra left, communist, nazis, ultra right or fascist activist should be sent to North Corea and locked there.....

deka - To magic and the likeminded ,,,

|2009-11-10 15:48:45

I have a sinking feeling this wont make a difference to you or other likeminded ,,but here goes anyway.
neither myself or the numerous people I know and have come to know in efforts to get some progress in intergration here fit into ANY of your "catogories" . Most are married with Danish citizens, all have work, family and being a contributing part of this society as thier priority. Almost all are from countries in Europe or USA. All are motivated, all educated, all have "acceptable" traditions, almost none have any religious concerns or conflicts whatsoever. Almost all are fluent in Danish as well as other languages, and i would bet the farm that none of them woul have an issue if thier daughters or sons married a dane,,after all, they all did.
If I can demonstrate a VERY large group of the population which also has these values "which even DFP" should deem accepatble,,what then is your argument for the way soooo many forigners feel here?
I have statiistics and doumentation from over 15 years , with well over 200 pages which backs up the facts that there is a severe problem here with the treatment of forigners,,,and the campain I am trying desperatly to get exposure on is dealing with presisly these kinds of attitudes which prevail here,... and in short that is,.. a misconception of both that the reality of the situation is, and how it affects not only the people its aimed at, but the society in general.
If its at all possible,,,, just try and assume that there may be some part of what everyone is saying that is true... is it more important to keep the attitude that it isnt so, or be open to the possibility some things need to be changed ?

I am happy to say that I have also meet MANY Danes both socially and through work and the campain, who are aware of the situation, and it is such a releif to hear them say, they are truly ashamed at how things have developed with integration and they sincerly hope for change to the better.
Thses are the people who give me hope that some day,,some how, Denmark will have a new vision and see the path to correcting a social injustice which in no way shape or form does Denmar any service.

It was not that many year sago that woman didnt have equal rights,,, nor the ability to vote...if it werent for the grassroots organisations who risked everything in order to have justice,,, where would they be now?
If the same didnt happen for blacks in the US, again, not so many years ago,,, I doubt seriously we would have a black president now.
And hopefully sooner than later,,Denmark may also be able to look back on the days when they ignored thier own anti discrimination laws, and allowed this segment of its population to be openly discriminated and treated as secondclass citizens for so long.
If someone told you that minks were being treated inhumainly in Denmark , you would reject it, until you had proof.
If someone told you that all who have the name "Brian" were social loosers , you may beleive it, till you were shown differently.
If you were told that there is extreme and unreasonable discrimination in Denmark, would you beleive it if it could be shown to you?
If the answer to this is yes,..then there is hope and all of your debates , be they pro or con are relevante. If the answer is no, then what is the point of debating in this forum , as the only thing that can then be of importance is your opinion muxt be right, no matter what.
My purpose in being in these and other debates on the subject of intergration is not only to contribute to the voiceof reason, but also to show support to the countless number of people affeced . And ultimatly, to make a diference and contribute to creating an awareness that can help make a change. This change is not only for the benifit of those affected by it, but also to contribute to making Denmark a better place for everyone.
Its in ALL of our best interests to be a part of the solution,,not a part of the problem.

or,,is it more important to be right?

Discrimination is NOT subjective,,it either is, or isnt!

tomnashdk

|2009-11-10 18:16:52

Thank you Deka. As the spouse of a Danish citizen, and as a Danish-speaking foreigner with a good job, paying top taxes, owning a Danish house, owning a Danish registered car, with a half-Danish son who goes to Danish public school, and so on, I am sick to death of the minority of Danes who think all foreigners should go home irregardless. I, too, have many Danish friends and relatives who are completely embarrassed and totally disgusted about the way their country treats ANY foreigner, and about the very existence of DF.

There is a serious problem in Denmark that ALL foreigners and many Danes are aware of, and it has nothing to do with third-world immigrants who "cannot or will not integrate." I could go on for hours with specific examples, but it serves no purpose here.

Again, thank you for your post.

deka - And thank you tomnashdk

|2009-11-10 18:57:31

Thank you tomnashdk for sharing your situation and for demonstrating exactly what the extent of the problem is from a "well integrated" forigners perspective. It is exactly this feeling that is prevelant for the majority of forigners no matter how well integrated or how much thier tax bracket it.
Its so frustrating not to be heard, and for those of us who have been fortunate enough , for wahtever miraculous reasons , not to be affected by it.... your lucky,,believe me.

I hope more people like you will continue to voice thier opinion and in whatever small way possible,,contribute to making a difference.

Pan - Loathsome Country

|2009-11-11 05:21:33

I've read a good portion of the comments. My two-cents worth are:

I am Danish national, born and bred, from families who have been in Denmark since time immemorial.

I could not STAND living there. It truly is a loathsome little country in far too many ways.

So, first chance I got, I left ... and never looked back.

That said, as an immigrant in another country, I very firmly believe in the credo: "Integrate or get out".

It's simple, if you go to Rome, do like the Romans, or stay where you came from and where you have some claim and try to make things there to your liking.

I am fully integrated where I live now. I follow their rules here and am respectful of their culture and their ways. THAT is how my mother taught me to behave when I am guest in someone else's house.

deka - Your right

|2009-11-11 08:50:06

the credo: "Integrate or get out is fair enough. ,,and absolutly when a guest in another country you have to adhear to thier rules and rugulations, and there should be zero tolerance for those who choose to express thier frustration etc in violence , distruction, etc.
However...... integration is not a one way street,,, the country should also allow you to integrate and that is difficult to do when you are not considered worthy , nor given any real acceptance or value .
As a guest you are required to make the extra effort regardless, but if you are born and raised in the country,,should you still be treated as an unwanted guest?

tom1980

|2009-11-11 12:00:05

I hear the phrase "when in Rome" constantly here but it it is, in fact, total BS!

It is really a sneaky way of telling others how to behave.

What's the problem in people being themselves and doing what they want to do (as long as they are not hurting others of course).

I love walking around Chinatown in London. Are the people there "integrated"? Probably not. Are they "doing as the Romans do"? No, of course not.

And that's why I and many other people like to go there.

Do I care if people in the shops and restaurants can't speak English very well? Of course not!

deka - Nice to see

|2009-11-11 12:21:37

Nice to see there is a growing group of concerned citizens who can see the damage this type of campaign can cause. There is recently started a webpage dealing specifically with this current issue , its called :
100.000 kr. til Pia K. hvis hun rejser ud af Danmark!

expatdude - keep dreaming

|2009-11-11 15:27:54

Hey damestjernely, here's a news flash.... you're in the European Union. Why don't your politicians take some of their own medicine, and instead of whining about EU policies all the time and trying to change what seems to work for the other 98% of the EU, and leave the European Union.

No? Too chicken? Easier to mouth off to a bunch of people and keep them in a secondary legal status for generation after generation because it makes you feel better?

The world will move on without you, and no one will notice... well, maybe you will eventually.

magic1964 - WEIRD ?

|2009-11-11 16:59:14

over the last 3 years there is a terrible campaign to describe Denmark worse for immigrants that a concentration camp.......but immigrants still try everything they can to come át all cost..and one they are here they don´t want to leave...WEIRD NO ??

wor - Organ (Immigrant) Transplant Rejection

|2009-11-11 23:27:19

This (lack of) integration issue reminds me of the "Organ Transplant Rejection" phenomenon, where a "perfectly good matching" organ gets rejected by the recipients body.

If I may quote wikipedia.org, and add a few words of my own in parenthesis (), and draw attention to specific phrases by use of "":-

Here goes:-

"Transplant (immigrant)rejection occurs when a transplanted organ(immigrant) or tissue(immigrant) is not accepted by the body(host society) of the transplant recipient(host country).

This is explained by the concept that the "immune system"(level of xenophobia) of the recipient(host country) attacks the transplanted organ(immigrant) or tissue(immigrant).

This is expected to happen, because the "immune system's" (xenophobic attiudes)purpose is to distinguish foreign(immigrant) material within the body (host country) and attempt to destroy(READ: ANNIHILATE) it, just as it attempts to destroy infecting organisms such as bacteria and viruses (e.g. intruders of sovereignty i.e during war time...I won't mention the lack of "immune response" during WW2 in regards to the NAZIs in Denmark...woops!)

When possible, transplant(immigrant) rejection can be reduced through serotyping(finding the closest "match") to determine the most appropriate donor(immigrant)-recipient(host country) match and through the use of immunosuppressant drugs("something to reduce the level of xenophobia maybe. READ: PSYCHIATRIC DRUGS")"

Anologues are only good to a certain point. BUT...
...the upshot is that to stop this "Organ (Immigrant) Transplant Rejection", one needs to work BOTH on the
organ(immigrant) and the recipient (host society/country).

Since well "matched" organs(immigrants with higer education, jobs, Danish language speakers, Danish spouses etc.) are ALSO having troubles...the problem probably lays with the recipient(host country/society).

:-)

HOX	\|2009-11-11 18:59:48

Do Danes adhere to the same principles that they dish up for foreigners in Denmark when they set up camp in another country? ……or do they completely integrate/assimilate, by absorbing everything the host country represents, and throws at them, or do they cling to their language, traditions, and seek out other Danes in the same boat (and carry on eating rugbrød, frikadeller, and all the other Danish gastronomic delights….) Are they subjected to crass remarks in the public arena when someone hears them speak their native tongue? And are they marginalised, and shunted to the back of the social queue just because they are Danish? I really hope that these examples do not apply to them! And that they are accepted for what they are - Danes! Maybe they could use the same equation in Denmark.

Pan - Should they stay or should they go?

|2009-11-11 20:12:52

Further to my previous posting - One of a plethora of reasons I left Denmark is exactly what many have cited: Xenophobia.

That, however, does not preclude my belief that they have a right to be just that in their country, as do others have a right to be who and what ther national spirit determines in their homelands. I don't see a problem with this.

As an aside, I would like to see just one of the home nations of these immigrants, welcome the Danish ways with open arms - methinks it's hardly likely that public drunkenness, nudity, publicly acknowledge, promiscuity, uncovered female heads, atheism and a raft of other Danish traits would be readily accepted by the general population, were a substantial (and proportional) number of Danes to set up camp in a foreign country.

As an emigre, I have found that it is always useful to try wearing the shoe on the other foot before one proclaims one's dearly held beliefs.

ldt	\|2009-11-11 20:29:25

actually as i've seen & notice it, integration problem does not ony depends on the foreigners, it also depends on Danish society: "if one wanted to be integrated but the society doesn't want him/her to be integrated, nothing will happen... let's say for example a foreigner wanted to have a job but the danish employer doesn't want him/her because he/she is a foreigner... it is just an example that happens all the time here in Denmark. I just hope that political party will also do something about the Danish society

magic1964 - same all over EU...

|2009-11-12 08:13:20

The same discussion happpen in France, Italy, Spain, Holland, Sweden etc etc......
In theory living together is easy......reallity show it´s not. Danish can hate each other if they have different political opinions.
When you read 3000 years old Greek writers, the same happened at that time.......it´s all about jalousie and egoism etc etc

WIngman - About time

|2009-11-16 04:41:57

Congrats Denmark, finally people have had enough of immigrants entering thier country and trying to create thier old country in the new country they moved to. If the old country was so wonderful and you miss it, go back. In Canada every city has china town, and little italy to name a few. We are over run by foreigners who don't like or want to be a part of my country, but come here to take advantage of the benifits Canada has to offer. Danes are not selfish asses, they just won't let anybody push them around, and for that you have my respect. Just don't invade my country again, your luck hans island is a frozen wasteland.

wor - Dear Wingman,

|2009-11-16 13:56:52

One could "reasonably argue" that if you are not part of the Indigenous peoples" of the land where your country is loacted, then you should get out.

Wingman, are you part of the "Indigenous peoples" of the land that is now called Canada?

If you are not, maybe would like to LEAD BY EXAMPLE, and take and ACT on your own advice.

Not that I believe in this "if you don't like it -LEAVE" attitude, BUT let's see if YOU, Wingman, believe enough in your own beliefs to ACT on them.

Reply welcomed

WIngman - Wtf

|2009-11-17 04:46:22

This discussion was not about weather or not I am part of the indigenous peoples of North America, it is about people who move to other countries and neither participate or conform to the traditions and cultures of the country they chose to move to. I am first generation Canadian, my father moved here from Denmark in the 1950's. He served with distinction as a member of the R.C.M.P for 30 years. I have never taken for granted this country I live in, and would fight and die to defend it. I am a PROUD CANADIAN. The wars that were fought by generations past to conquer this land have no bearing on what my role as a Canadian are. I live in todays world and I am a full blood Canadian and there is no where else I will ever call home. That is what I expect from the people that move to MY country. Please respond

wor - Dear Wingman

|2009-11-17 15:12:18

Thank you for your response.

Not wishing to take the high ground, I was just simply pointing out the GREAT IRONY of your attitude in relation to you not being part of the "indigenous peoples of North America" (your phrase)...I find the attitude you present "a bit rich", BUT mostly unhelpful as you provide no other suggestions to help solve the issue..it would be nice if you did.

Maybe you would like to reflect on that irony...I'm not part of the "indigineous peoples" of the land where I was born, which is why I could see the irony of your point of view immediately AND don't hold such views. Which is why I posted earlier about "xenophobic immigrants"...not that I'm calling you xenophobic.

EDITED ADDITION:
The fact that you hold such "polarised" attitudes in your first post, makes you "game" for the irony of your situation to be pointed out.
Reply welcomed

tom1980

|2009-11-17 20:22:23

Read this, it explains everything.

http://www.nylonmanden.dk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=177&Itemid=43

Peter - tom1980

|2009-11-18 09:02:25

Have you read anything else on that site?

I was amazed to find out that when I moved from the States to Denmark I was absorbed into a satanic, feminist, gay, illuminati, zionist, communist, socialist, anti-christian country bent on world domination. At least in the matrix.

Enlightening.

Jon_Casey - Another quality post…

|2009-11-18 10:34:36

Thanks for another one of your enlightening posts Tom; as usual it gave me a good laugh. I had no idea that since moving to Denmark I had been unwittingly assimilated into a life of slavery, self denial and hopelessness that the evil Danish empire “matrix” represents.

You’ve opened my eyes…

wor - Good post, tom1980

|2009-11-18 11:12:58

....Also thanks for posting your link on the "Home Sweet Home" comments.

Also, tom1980, I saw on the comments for the "Home Sweet Home" article that you say that "an antrhopologist would have a field day here"...I think we can agree that (good)psychologists do have field days here.

For my current job, I had three interviews, and the last one was with the recruitment agent to have a psychometric test. The agent had a background in psychology. Anyway, when discussing the results of the test the agent pointed out to me that my level of "empathy" was significantly more than the average Dane...then the agent told me to be very careful in Denmark...she said this three times during the remainder of the interview, before hinting that she'd reccomend me for the job.

It just happens that at that time I was aware of that, and that "unempathetic" people/society behave like narcisists, I refer you to my comments on the post link below:-
http://www.cphpost.dk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=47048&joscclean=1&comment_id=1879#josc1879

The upshot is that, the Danish xenophobia is a due unempethy caused by narcissism....hence the existence of the MATRIX which could be viewed as a protection mechanism. Protection against what? Good question. Answer: "Protection against living in the real world"

tom1980 - No problem mr Wor

|2009-11-18 12:03:57

DId you ask the lady why you had to be careful in Denmark? I'd be interested to know.

Check out the other articles:
http://www.rense.com/general79/brave.htm

They are all fascinating and scarily familiar.

JoeThePlumber - to WOR - similar happend to me!

|2009-11-18 12:18:34

I too took one of those tests when I interviewed here in Denmark. They discussed it wth me and said 'I am not a risk taker'. I said, Oh? I am leavng a job I love, my extended family, my country, selling my house, cars, kayaks, furniture, everything to move to a country where I don't speak the language, don't know anybody but my wife, don't know my new job, etc. And you say I'm not a 'risk taker'.
The tests were a joke and I answered based upon my life experience, and my interpretation of words, the test proved nothing.
They also asked something about 'neatness'. I owned my own house 3 times the size of my Copenhagen apartment, and lived alone. I didn't have to put everything away the second I walked in the door.

wor - To tom1980

|2009-11-18 14:11:28

...She told me that: Because I had a higher level of empathy in relation to your average Dane, it meant that I was interested in people and tended to "trust" people.

She showed me that gaussian curve thing and where I was on it.. I think I was outside of the first standard deviation...i.e outside of about 70% of the population...my interpretaion.

Then she specifically told me that I "had to be careful that I don't get taken advantage of"...I quote exactly.

She also told me that I had a "thick skin", and that was good.

My conclusion, In blunt terms: "You cannot trust Danes, as they will try to take advantage of you...and you need a thick skin to survive here."

Note: surviving is not living

Note also, this recruitment was a Dane who also had a bakground in psychology.

Not that I like to do my laundry in public, or to moan, but I offfer the following as it is related to the my comments above.

I was having "communication issues" with the Dane I was living with...she refused to even "try" to communicate, took everything as an attack, and acted like I did not exist, which I summed up as a complete lack of empathy,
....and at one point we went to see a (Danish)psychologist. This Psychologists husband was a foreigner, and the pschologist had lived and worked as a pschologist abroad...here comes the juicy bit the (Danish) pschologist told me point blank "Danes are cold and not very welcoming"...my words, but she definately told me Danes are "cold".

It is interesting that these comments come from people with backgrounds in pscychology...hence my comment about psycholgists also having a field day here.

Buyer beware

wor - to Joe

|2009-11-18 14:29:20

...I'm not the kind of guy to believe in pscycho tests, since In the UK, where I am from, I've never had a psycho test to get a job.

After coming to Denmark and going to job interviews, I had 2 out of the first 3 job interviews give me psychotests....I told them that most of what they where saying did not fit.

The FIRST job I did get was without having to do a psycho test.

A test I found "useful", is "learning styles" test based on stuff found from http://www.peterhoney.com/

I wrote "useful" as I think a "good test" with good interpreters "may" provide indicators...but otherwise I do not trust tests...instinct is better asuming your insticts are "calibrated"

I did a very short version of the "learning styles" test, and found out that one of my strong areas was that I "reflected" alot ...I asked the Dane I was living with to do the test, and it showed that she did not "reflect"

....to have empathy one needs to be able to refelct

The interesting thing about this learning styles stuff is that the way you behave is closely linked to the "way you learned"

...I learn a lot through taking time to reflect on a problem, some don't and when faced/confronted with a problem, people who do not "know" or learnt how to "reflect" tend to blast you with their "narcisistic breakdown"...narcissist don't know how to reflect as this means to SEE that you are not perfect...not many people can handle being imperfect...and their reaction is often voiced as "IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT -LEAVE"

Long post, and I'm not trying to be smart, I just found that CONCIOUSLY knowing this stuff helps to keep me sane and know that it is not my paranoia

Thanks for posting, Joe

EDITED ADDITION:
I just thought that maybe these psychometric tests are a method to find out "How much YOU already confirm to exixsting Danish ideals, AND how easily YOU can be assimilated, NOT integrated, but ASSIMILATED.

thefutureofbass - i knew it

|2009-11-20 10:41:46

That's why i have no friends, i thought it was my attitude but it's the Danish attitude.
buy my record www.juliousbass,com

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