International students wanting to stay in Denmark face many obstacles

Foreign degree-holding students who want to stay in Denmark are finding it hard to start careers (File Photo) To remain in this country after graduating is too difficult for most international students

International students are not assimilating into the Danish workforce because there are too many obstacles in their way, a Forum for Business Education (FBE) report states.

The report, compiled for the Employment Ministry, shows that 73 percent of foreign students leave Denmark within two years of completing their education, despite expressing a desire to stay.

More than a third of those who do remain are unable to find work.

The report follows the news that the 14,470 international students here last year, is more than three times as many as 10 years ago.

Students cited the lack of employment, the high costs for non-EU students and the difficulty in adapting to the Danish language and culture as the primary reasons for leaving the country after their studies.

FBE chief executive Stina Vrang Elias said a national strategy was needed to help international students learn Danish and find jobs.

Employment Minister Inger Støjberg recognised the importance of foreigners to the domestic labour market and said that the state’s Work in Denmark centres were already cooperating with a number of educational institutes to retain international students in Denmark.

Comments

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Yang	\|2009-08-26 16:38:54

I expected to learn what obstacles are in detail, hopefully a serials of cases they experienced, but...

pingdk - Here's an idea..

|2009-08-26 23:19:54

Why not charge them 3000 Kr. to take a Danish proficiency test? Surely they will feel welcome and wish to stay.

Maja	\|2009-08-27 00:04:43

True, they didn't really specifically say what the obstacles were in detail... But it is worrying for foreigners wanting to stay in Denmark which is sad.

iulianz03

|2009-08-27 03:39:16

I am a student from Romania, living in Horsens, and i can say that the situation is actually worse. At least half of the foreigners i know that have finished an education here can not find jobs anywhere but in cleaning. It is absurd. I don't understand why are there so many universities offering international programmes if the students are not needed here after they graduate. Not to be too negativistic and mention anything about how difficult it is to socialize with Danes... and so many other things.

safwh - do the right thing!

|2009-08-27 09:55:32

International students should be very careful about making a choice to study in Denmark. As has been pointed out in the article and also from the comments and experience of my friends, I believe that it is extremely tough for International students to get on to their own feet in Denmark. The reasons are many and the financial crisis plus a favoritism of the locals over foreigners doesn't help. It is very important that International students consider everything before making a move (their own qualifications, their new education, the reputation of the school, skills shortage in Denmark, difference in culture, necessary language skill, etc etc). It is very necessary to do this before coming to Denmark (don't take chances, especially in these times) because it is expensive to be in Denmark if you study for a year or two, and then if you don't get employed, you might not be able to achieve the returns you expected in the time frame you wanted. So, in the end, you might have nothing more than a sunk cost and some wisdom. There will always be messages emanating out of Denmark that we welcome International students and there are tremendous opportunities for them here. Don't get fooled by these messages as these messages will keep on coming as it is in the benefit of Danish economy to have International students here as customers of schools and residents of society where students pay for their own education and their own livelihood. No surprise, that after the education ends, you see the real picture, but by then it is too late. And, cleaning doesn't help. Really. Please don't stay in Denmark to clean hotels, stores, metros etc in the hope that one day you will find a nice job. Write a strict time frame. If it doesn’t work out, then go to your home and find a decent job.

PC - You people are a joke.

|2009-08-27 10:27:09

14,400 international students per year, plus all the other emigrants that just want to come here to live out of the Danes welfare. If you consider around 50,000 of these people wanting to move here per year it would only take 50 years for half of the current Danish population to be foreigners.

Are you seriously blaming the Danes for trying to avoid this cenario?!

What about taking your education and go improve your countries situation instead of leeching from a society that has worked to be where they are.

Why dont you start inviting people to come live at your house and let them use whatever they want?

You people and your complains are ridiculous.

PC - to iulianz03

|2009-08-27 10:32:29

"I don't understand why are there so many universities offering international programmes if the students are not needed here after they graduate."

when a country offers international courses it does it so you can come here and benefict from their knowledge, their study style and culture. If you are interested. Not to give you a job after that.

you obviously came here to live off their welfare not to enrich yourself with a foreign education.

Almost 50% of Danes study abroad at some point. you dont see them begging for work in those countries after that.

safwh - I don’t see anybody laughing! - To dear PC

|2009-08-27 13:59:49

PC – Let’s not mix immigrant problem with the situation of International Students. So, leeching and preaching doesn’t apply here, because International Students stay here with the intention of being employed and contribute to the society (pay taxes, so as to say). I also have the opinion that in this global world, everybody has freedom to where he or she wants to move or live as a professional (by the right means, off course). But, I partly agree with you. If an International Student has almost no scope of getting a job in Denmark (a lot of them do want to for a certain number of years after finishing education), then he/she might be better off not having an education in Denmark and might want to keep away from this country. One of the reasons students go abroad to get education is also to get an international experience after the education is finished (most often in the same country of education). If there are no prospects in a particular country for that, then a big incentive of getting education in that country wears off. If we don’t want to hire the International workers in Denmark (which is opposite of the message “Work in Denmark” conveys), I believe that it should be completely conveyed to students coming to Denmark beforehand, so that they are not caught unawares and no nasty surprises. International students should know that they are here only for school and have to head back to repair their homes, when the time is over.

Though your next post wasn’t for me, but let me shine some light there too. The study style in International Programs in Denmark is unique, and helps the students to gain a new perspective. I have been an International Student myself here and have experienced it firsthand. But, ‘culture’ is a different case altogether. One can’t fully understand the culture of a country unless one lives an integral part of the society, which is truer when you are professional in Danish company than a student in an international program. Again, I don’t understand the link between International Students and Welfare society. An International Student bears his own cost and the student vise expires after 6 months of finishing education. Part of the blame lies on the International Students too because they strongly link getting education in Denmark with “Work in Denmark” and ignore to see the full picture. However, International Students from most countries will like to have International Exposure. So, please don’t make a rule of what the Danes do.

BABS - Yes, we know this.

|2009-08-27 11:13:15

PC is getting very aggressive and angry, but point is, we are not asking for handouts or fast track jobs.

The report clearly indicates that many people don't want to be here beyond their short term educational or work contracts.

Denmark has a reputation for being unwelcome to foreigners. How is that going to change?

It's up to the likes of PC and the ministry to decide if they want to attract new people or not.

I suspect that there will be no great changes.

There is a small core of internationals with a choice, who choose to be here against all the odds, but the numbers speak for themselves.

For internationals students, living in Denmark is bearable for the duration of their education (and surely the uni's and Danish economy are benefiting financially from this??) and then they want to leave.

Without the education options here there would be hardly any foreigners making a beeline for this country, unless they have no choice in the matter (refugees).

The great thing about the Danish uni's attracting the international students is that Denmark gets a vital shot in the arm of culture and freshness.

Walking through the university towns in Denmark, every second or third voice is not speaking Danish, and this is wonderfully refreshing and educational.

But of course we leave if we can.

;)

BABS - Danes get the jobs...

|2009-08-27 11:15:21

..oh yes and when the financial crisis started to 'hit' I had it straight from the horses mouth, from one employer, that if they had a choice of giving a job to a foreigner or a Danish, then even if the Dane was less qualified, of course the Dane would get the job...this was off the record, but I guess that it is no surprise.

I was supposed to understand this because or course.. "it's only natural.."

ana n. imus - thats true

|2009-08-27 11:26:19

I have a friend who graduated here in a Danish university. She speaks Danish well, and she stayed here in Denmark for almost 7 years now. She was given an SU as well to support her studies. Eventually she found a job in a firm albeit not related to her degree. She then applied for a work permit for the job she had. Well guess what? she wasnt able to get a permit. the reason..the job doesnt fall in the positive list nor any of the other so called categories before you can secure a visa and a work permit. She appealed her case and after almost half a year, her application is still denied. As a result she was told to leave Denmark after 3 weeks. So how about that?

The state gave her an education, suported her, but in the end they want to kick her out.

PC - to BABS

|2009-08-27 11:52:02

"It's up to the likes of PC and the ministry to decide if they want to attract new people or not."

your attack of me being angry and agressive, which I cannot understand, obviously comes from the fact that you thought I was Danish and you wanted to vent out a little frustration.

The point of my comments, which you missed, is that I am not Danish. And I have a good job and study in Denmark because instead of complaining, like most people, I work to get what I want. I try to understand the ways of my host country and make my reality fit in a positive way.

And trust me there are plenty of cases like mine.

People that blame others for their short comings exist in every scenario of life it is not confined to foreign students in Denmark.

JFD	\|2009-08-27 12:25:04

PC: when you get done with your studies give me a call, I'll hire you.

I need intelligent, rational people that aren't afraid to tell-it-like-it-is in my firm.

Best of success to you!

tom1980 - bloody students!

|2009-08-27 12:37:02

Having a good academic education doesnt automatically make you employable. I work with people who eat phds for breakfast who I would never employ.

People skills are number 1 in business!!

Who cares if someone has spent the past 8 years studying the variance in potenial difference of lettuce leaves dipped in rice wine?

Antha - Hmmm

|2009-08-27 12:58:46

I believe that, if someone intends to remain in Denmark after completing the study program they enrolled for, they should really do their best and find some form of part-time employment soon after being admitted to the university of their interest, and maybe the opportunity to go full-time once studies are completed. Of course it can be hard, but not as hard as not having a decent job afterwards... To me it makes sense that a Danish employer would pick a Danish employee instead of a foreign one (and I'm not Danish). Plus, if an "international" has problems socializing with Danes and finding his place in the Danish society, maybe staying in Denmark is not the best idea even if you get a decent job, not to mention if you don't - such a situation really makes people wonder why you stay there :S

Lingus - Too much experience...

|2009-08-27 13:38:53

Hey everyone!

Where does someone like me stand in all this? Where I'm from originally experience is key and although degrees are important you're deemed a little odd if you're still studying into your 30's!

So, here I come over to Denmark (Danish husband, 2 kids in tow - my decision by the way) and I'm told I have too much experience for my age and can't get a job (14 years)!

So where does that leave me in my mid 30's....Not complaining, this is purely a question of where I stand in the job market next to the students as degrees seem to trump experience?

I've always made my own way, never asked for handouts. We moved for the health care offered in Denmark for my youngest son and the lower crime rate...simple, does this mean I'm taking from the Danes - pretty unclear on this issue....do we not deserve it, my children are ½ Danish?

All I can say is I wish all the students best of luck and hope that you have better luck at finding a job than I did. But I'm not going to cry about it - my sister has a saying "Put on your big girl panties and grow up!".

tom1980 - mrs lingus

|2009-08-27 14:26:14

are you saying you havent had a job here for 14 years? That's awful. What about doing something on your own like writing a guide to denmark for foreigners?

iulianz03 - To PC

|2009-08-27 14:27:20

The fact is, i am obviously living on the Danish welfare system. I receive every month about four to five thousand kronas from my school. Only that in debt. I believe you should run for elections. Your economical genius would actually help Denmark get out of the financial crisis.
Now, let's see some facts. Probably you are a refugee who did live on the Danish welfare system. Otherwise, you would know that citizens from any EU country coming here to study sign a contract in which they agree never to receive any support from the so-called Danish welfare system( the best one in the world, as Danish red-necks usually call it) .Moreover, we, foreign students, are required to pay huge amounts of money for expenses such as school accomodation, Let me explain. We are supposed to pay huge amounts of money for rent( actually, double than anywhere in the same city). We are only seen as a business. Danes profit by having us here. Period. It doesn't matter in which way. But they do. I accept your view of supporting the Danish welfare system. But you need to be aware of facts before posting opinions.
To JFD: I have been reading your posts for a long time here. I actually agreed with you on very many topics. But you supporting PC's opinion is quite distressing. Though i respect this, i see it as in total contrast with everything you had been arguing for before. Probably you could use such a person in your company, to "tell-it-like-it-is".

Lingus - tom1980 - LOL!!!

|2009-08-28 00:48:03

Hey tom1980 - thanks for the concern but no I've only live here 1½ years and I've managed to have 2 jobs since I arrived.

First job the company folded so I had a gap of 2 months, got very frustrated looking for something and being denied so decided to start my own little business. :-) I now have full time employment in another job, so I'm okay albeit not what I exactly wanted - but beggars can't be choosers.

I meant to say I have 14 years experience in my industry but it doesn't seem to matter here. :-( The guide sounds interesting though...but I'm more interesting in going to Danish classes! ;-)

Lingus - tom1980 - LOL!!!

|2009-08-28 00:54:56

PC - wow iulianz03!

|2009-08-28 09:59:51

If you reread your post carefully you will find many hints why you are not successful in life.

You tell me my points are not valid but dont really mention what those points are.

Imply that I am a refugee that is sucking up to the host country. Sorry, I am quite European so I am quite aware of the rules we have to follow. Sorry that you had to waste that little insult. Oh and I also have a degree in Economics so yes I do know what I am talking about.

And then you go and call Danes rednekcs and arrogants! The point of this debat is understanding why Danes dont integrate foreigners like you. Well there is you answer.

Finally you go and tell another user of the forum that his opinions are only good when they are the same as yours.

Really all I can say is ... wow. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot.

PC - To Lingus

|2009-08-28 10:16:25

Hi Lingus, I understand your situation. Like you I also come from a country where experience is chief in a curriculum.

But here investing in education up to Masters level is taken into high consideration. In my company that even influences what salary bracket you are put on regardless of experience. So since I decided to stay here for a couple more years I have started a Masters program dispite my 10 years work experience.

Also the other thing that will boost your "hireability" alot is offcourse learning Danish and knowing how Danes like to work. For example, when hiring a new employee, Danes take in consideration if you will fit in professionally aswell as socialy. A good social work environment is very important for Danes.

AG - Did I just read the same article?

|2009-08-28 15:34:47

This article seemed to me to be stressing how Denmark *wanted* to keep the international students after they graduated but that, for various reasons, most students do not stay.

I quote: "FBE chief executive Stina Vrang Elias said a national strategy was needed to help international students learn Danish and find jobs.

Employment Minister Inger Støjberg recognised the importance of foreigners to the domestic labour market and said that the state’s Work in Denmark centres were already cooperating with a number of educational institutes to retain international students in Denmark."

Okay, that was a long quote... anyway, the point being that the government is trying to walk a very fine line, attract a certain type of immigrant while restricting immigration to keep another type out. (Which is a WHOLE other thread.) Unfortunately, this behavior does tend to send mixed signals. Especially in the current economic climate where there are fewer jobs available than there are students training for them. I feel it is a bit irresponsible of the government to try to say "stay, we beg you!" and set up programs to try to keep internationals (although, that is one way to make more jobs), when it cannot guarantee these graduates a job. Not that Denmark should guarantee everyone a job... it would be nice, but unachievable when there is already joblessness in the market. But can we really blame the students who come here for an education and expect to stay and work when the Danish government itself is asking them to please stay and work?? (Seriously, read that last quote again! That's what the government is saying!)

There is also a difference between those international students who come for study abroad (usually a set period of time and is geared towards learning about another culture) and those that take a full education. One expects to go home, the other may not, depending on culture, location, immigration laws, etc. Also, please lets not mix up Danes who go abroad for a year of travel with students trying to earn a degree at a Danish university. NOT THAT I AM SAYING THAT ANYONE SAID THIS! (That's me covering my ass before someone goes and jumps down my throat. These boards seem a bit punchy, if you know what I mean.)

In the end, it seems that most international students DO go back to their countries of origin (73%) even if they want to stay and it is the government itself that finds this high number of people LEAVING the country as the problem.

tom1980

|2009-08-28 16:25:32

Last week I saw a notice on the wall at my company. It proudly proclaimed

"COURSES RUN BY INTERNATIONALS!"

I had a little chuckle as this really is the Danes' polite way of saying "oohh look at us, we are so advanced and terribly important that even foreigners work here! Wow man, I mean, our outlook is just so....err..international!".

Kendira - to everyone

|2009-08-30 05:06:42

I can agree with PC. The main thing here and everywhere is an attitude and the gratitude. There is no one another who have to be blamed.We have different reasons why we came to Denmark. Start with that one.

belinda - it seems foreigners are more unsympathetic than Da

|2009-09-02 15:46:20

the most distressing is that a lot of these comments are completely unsympathetic and extremely aggressive.
PC - if you have been successful, why are you feeling the need to rub the other noses in your success and call them names? first you claimed that Iulianz03 is here to live on the Danish welfare system, then that you know all these rules and he deserves whatever misfortune happens to him. Well, let's hope you do not find yourself in trouble and have others lecture you what an idiot you have been, without knowing much about you or your situation.
Also, I do not understand why you imply that coming here to study and hoping to find job in Denmark is a crime and a step into pushing Denmark closer to chaos.

The article seems to give hope - that they will try to help foreign students integrate. Personally, i do not know anyone who was helped by state agencies to find a job, be it a local or a foreigner, in Denmark or elsewhere.

BABS - PC-job offer

|2009-09-02 17:32:22

No, PC, when you get done, give ME a call and I WILL hire you.

I need someone to empty the bins and clean up all the sticky marks on my floor.

I didn't think you were Danish.

And you said: "Why dont you start inviting people to come live at your house and let them use whatever they want?

You people and your complains are ridiculous."

So I should have known you have a sense of humor too!

Sorry if I offended you, that wasn't my intention. I thought you made a very intelligent and balanced comment about the complains and I didn't mean to trash it.

Please accept my apologies for suggesting you were angry and aggressive in any way.

By the way, I love your comment tag lines, my fave being:

"You people are a joke"

*wipes tears of mirth from eyes*

V.funny.

TAXI!

thefutureofbass - reality

|2009-09-07 22:10:04

Denmark is social democratic monarchy which means high taxes racism ignorence and no money.Ask yourself this whats so great about Denmark.America needs you come over and build a future.You can come over drink coffee and you know what,.we want you to stay.

tomnashdk

|2009-09-08 13:32:02

I do not have expressed permission to identify where these numbers come from, so let me just say that they come from several sources that are for the most part a collection of Danish businesses that are actively trying to attract foreign workers, and keep them in Denmark.

These numbers apply to foreign “knowledge workers”, or highly-educated foreigners who are paid high salaries to work in Danish companies and develop products and services that Denmark can export. In other words, these people bring money into Denmark through their efforts. We are not talking about refugees or muslim extremists here, we are not talking about spouses of Danish citizens and family reunification, we are not talking about anyone who will “suck off the social system”, we are talking about normal well-educated tax-paying people with families, careers, and dreams who were invited and recruited to Denmark by Danish companies with Danish government support in order to secure Denmark’s future in the global marketplace. Some of these people come from elsewhere in Europe, some of them come from North America, some of them come from the Pacific Rim, some from South America, and some of them come from Asia.

The statistics indicate that between the greater Copenhagen area, the Århus area, and the Vejle-Kolding-Frederecia golden triangle, there are somewhere around 5000 of these foreigners living and working in Denmark, plus their families. This does not count Ålborg or Odense, which might have even more. This number is supposed to trend up over the next several years, and according to one set of numbers I saw it could be by as much as a 60% increase in arrivals. The export income these foreigners generate for Denmark is measured in the billions of kroner. The statistics also show that between 65 and 70% of these people, or about 3300 to 3500 of them currently, will leave Denmark this year, well before their first three years in Denmark. Highly-paid, highly-educated, contributing members of society who happen to be foreigners, who generate massive amounts of income for Denmark leave the country every year, and the numbers of departures are trending up as well. Based on exit interviews, the reasons these people give for leaving Denmark so quickly are a poor Danish infrastructure to support their families’ needs, poor employment prospects for spouses, and Danish people’s attitudes towards foreigners in general. This has nothing to do with Danish taxes or the Danish language. These are facts, people. They are not my personal opinions nor are they anecdotal evidence. This is the reality right now.

Clearly, there is a problem. This is not about unprepared, uneducated, or illiterate foreigners. This is not about foreigner’s attitudes. This is not about language skills. It is completely about constructive contributing members of society feeling uncomfortable and unwelcome in their new home, despite their best efforts, open minds and positive attitudes. This is a Danish national failure and a Danish attitude problem that is working against Denmark. International students get their first taste of this as soon as they leave university and try to get a job in the Danish workplace. All of a sudden they are not so welcome. Jobs go to Danes. Speak Danish. Be Danish. But you will never be Danish so never mind, just leave.

Until it hurts so much economically and standard-of-living-wise that even the dumbest Dane begins to “get it”, we will continue to have this problem. I sincerely hope Danes see this before it is too late.

tomnashdk

|2009-09-08 16:13:11

Here is a little more pertinent food for thought. There is an article on MSNBC’s web site titiled, " U.S. no longer most competitive economy”

Here are two quotes from the article:

“Pollsters asked business figures to rate 133 countries on good government; transport and telecommunications infrastructure; openness to innovation; intellectual property protection; and availability of talent.”

“…while Denmark slipped two ranks to fifth.”

Do “openness to innovation” and “availability of talent” strike a chord here?

Do you think there is a connection between those and Denmark slipping in the rankings?

The good news is that Denmark is still in the top five. The bad news is that Denmark is working its way down the list. How far down do we have to go before people realize the trend is in the wrong direction?

Link to the article on MSNBC:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32730736/ns/business-world_business/

tom1980

|2009-09-08 18:07:04

"when a country offers international courses it does it so you can come here and benefict from their knowledge, their study style and culture..PC"

Mmmm I'm not so sure about that one PC. Universities make more money from foreigners taking their courses than they do from Danes.

Do you really think the universities here are doing foreigners a big favour by accepting them?

Maybe I should have thanked the old lady that hit my shins with her walking stick, snorted and then barged me out of the way on the bus this morning.

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International students wanting to stay in Denmark face many obstacles

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